Advanta Problems - Please Beware

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Advanta Problems - Please Beware

Postby bdenardis on Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:59 pm

Anyone else having problems or heard if they are? I have had their card for over a year now or maybe 2 years. Came with the lifetime 2.99% offer. Today for the first time I wanted to take a cash advance of $2,000.00 to get my daughter a car. I called them to confirm the cash advance rate of 9.99%.

They told me they sent a letter out on June 18th, 2008 letting all their clients know that to keep the card the rates were going up to 27.84%. I was absolutely shocked. They said this is going into effect on August 1st. Even if I used the card today they would charge me the 27.84% rate and as a matter of fact they will no longer be honoring the 2.99% for life agreement and that would be going up to 9.99%. They said the only way to stop the rate increase was to close the account out via facsimile and state in there that I am "opting out of the reprice". I called back and spoke to a 2nd person there who gave me the same info so I faxed a letter to them right away closing the account.

I am still stunned and don't get this at all. Are they going under? They said it was due to the poor economy. I have never been late and always pay more than the minimum. Anyone have any input as to what is going on?
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Re: Advanta Problems - Please Beware

Postby baltar on Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:35 pm

Last week I signed up for an Advanta Business Platinum card, because at askmrcreditcard dot com said this had the best balance transfer (0% for 15 months) and my offer says the APR is at, well, I don't know. Oddly enough, I got their terms and conditions, but I don't see a summary, you know, terms and conditions sheet that has the basic fees and interest rates in large blocks at the top. Ignorant me! At their website, they state 7.99 apr VARIABLE after the initial 15 cycle period is up. I did try to transfer two credit card debts over to use their balance transfer. They capped my credit limit at 2500.00 and my debt is 3500, so I don't think it is worth it, as there is a transfer fee of 90 bucks. That's just interest up front.

Obviously they are trying to get rid of their long-standing customers who hold that very low FIXED apr, a rare thing nowadays. If I were you, and you could have managed without using the card, I would have kept it to see what really would have happened. Maybe it was just a scare tactic that they would not have carried through as they stated in their letter.

As usual, being in debt to someone else is being their slave. I'm sorry this happened to you. I don't think they should have been allowed to change their contract agreement with you, even though, they state in their blah blah blah blah blah blah agreement, that they can change it whenever they want. I assume they said this in the contract?
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Re: Advanta Problems - Please Beware

Postby crosswaypub on Thu Aug 07, 2008 5:33 am

Concerning Advanta: BEWARE
I received an offer in the mail from them back in 2002 for a business card which I took advantage of in order to keep track of my business expenses. At the time they were offering 0% for 6 months with a 7.99% fixed after that. Unfortunately last year they raised the rate to 15.9% and then in June of this year they went to 34.9% without any explanation. I quickly paid what I owed on the card and had it canceled. I also contacted the BBB to complain and found there were over 250 complaints registered against them at the time. I also filed a complaint with the FDIC. if you happen to get an offer from them I highly recommend you DO NOT take it.
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Re: Advanta Problems - Please Beware

Postby genki on Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:00 pm

Stay away from Advanta!!!

I have had Advanta for 3 years and enjoyed their 7.99% interest rate. I received a mailer few days ago telling me that my rates were going up. After confirming with their on-line customer service, my rate is now 25% for purchases and 35% for convenience checks and cash advances. They told me that the reasons were a recent review of my account and credit report. Well, my credit rating is 786 out of 830 which puts me in the excellent category. I have never missed an Advanta payment. I have scoured the Internet for information, and after seeing that they are screwing absolutely everyone, I tried to get out. Well, it turns out that I only had a few days to get out. Since I was going back and forth with their customer service, they informed me that I have missed the deadline and I am now supposed to pay 25%-35% on my remaining balance.

I want to warn everyone out there thinking of Advanta for a credit card. Run away as fast as you can! If you have Advanta, get out now!!!
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Re: Advanta Problems - Please Beware

Postby Polonius on Sun Sep 07, 2008 4:38 pm

Are you saying that you didn't pay the minimum on your bill in time because you were discussing this issue with Advanta, and so you were hit with default pricing? Didn't you expect that to happen?

I'm not defending Advanta, mind you. But if you don't want to accept the changed terms, just tell them so and stop using the card for new purchases. Advanta will still let you pay off the existing debt at the old rates...
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Re: Advanta Problems - Please Beware

Postby tmb3775 on Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:01 am

i have had problems also. I am a good customer, pay before due date and more that the minimum. They just upped my rate from 9.99% to 35%! they won't budge on it either. I have never defaulted on any payment ever in my credit history.
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Re: Advanta Problems - Please Beware

Postby guitaristmom on Fri Sep 12, 2008 1:53 pm

I am writing in because the same thing happened to me. They hiked my interest rate up to 35%!!!!

Everyone who is affected by this PLEASE write the Utah attorney general to investigate. I saw on the internet that the attorney general in my state was suing a mortgage company for unfair lending practices. Hopefully we'll be able to get somewhere with this. Anyone want to start a yahoogroup so we can meet as a group to start a formal complaint against the company, possibly a class action lawsuit? Email me at lillian @ fragrantblossom.com
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Re: Advanta Problems - Please Beware

Postby telink1000 on Mon Sep 22, 2008 2:44 pm

Buyer Beware! As a Advanta Business Card holder since 2006, I had a 7.99% rate until my last statement showed 30.08% !!!! I called and was told me my rate changed due to my credit score, payment history and the economy! My credit has not changed. (750+ FICO) I have never had a late payment with Advanta. They said I received a letter showing the rate increase and had a chance to opt out. I never received this letter. After getting off phone with Advanta, I quickly transferred my balance to a 0% credit card company for 12 months (3% balance transfer). Stay away from this company!
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Re: Advanta Problems - Please Beware

Postby Polonius on Tue Sep 23, 2008 6:32 pm

Well, I for one certainly enjoy reading your post, telink1000--OVER AND OVER AGAIN--in every topic in which Advanta is mentioned--the same post too, pasted in with no new information or thought.

Some call it SPAM.
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Re: Advanta Problems - Please Beware

Postby Alaskan Assassin on Tue Sep 23, 2008 6:38 pm

I take it advanta is having hard times :shock:
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Re: Advanta Problems - Please Beware

Postby telink1000 on Wed Sep 24, 2008 7:40 am

Polius,

My posts are true and all related to Advanta. Please do yourself a favor. Do a Google search for "advanta business card complaints" or go to ripoffreportreport.com, type in "advanta" and you will see for yourself. Consumers should know the truth about this company.
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Re: Advanta Problems - Please Beware

Postby telink1000 on Fri Sep 26, 2008 1:35 pm

Sorry, there was a mistake in the website url. Go to ripoffreport.com, type in "advanta"
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Re: Advanta Problems - Please Beware

Postby mforky on Thu Oct 02, 2008 8:45 am

Referring back to the post from Polonious, you can't pay off the existing debt at the old rates. If you fail to "opt out" of the new terms, they apply to the existing debt as well. If you "opt out", they will close your account but cannot by law apply the new terms to your account balance. Problem is, most people don't realize that they can opt out of new terms until it is too late. It is in the very fine print in your card agreement. Advanta just upped my rate to 25% purchases/35% cash advances and I have never been late on any bills and was paying them from $1k-$5k per month to keep my balance down on my business card. They will be paid off shortly and I will NEVER do business with them again. I wish I had looked into all of the bad reports about them on the internet BEFORE getting the card. The thing to watch out for is the Universal Default Clause. Advanta has it and Capital One does not. I am not sure which other credit cards have it but you do NOT want it in your agreement because they can raise your rate at any time even if they "think" you won't pay. I guess with the failing economy they can "think" that many of us won't pay and raise our rates. The worst part is if someone has their card and doesn't have perfect credit, it will be hard to get another card at this time since many of the banks don't have money to lend.

Best advice I have is if you get anything from any credit card stating that the terms will change, send them a Certified Mail letter stating your intentions to "opt out". I believe you only have 30 days to do this, but each company may have their own time limit.
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Re: Advanta Problems - Please Beware

Postby telink1000 on Thu Oct 02, 2008 11:06 am

The problem with "opting out" of Advanta is sometimes the change in rate letter never comes. This happened to me and many others. Stay awy from Advanta and their predatory lending practice.
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Re: Advanta Problems - Please Beware

Postby Polonius on Sun Oct 12, 2008 9:37 am

My posts are true and all related to Advanta. Please do yourself a favor. Do a Google search for "advanta business card complaints" or go to ripoffreportreport.com, type in "advanta" and you will see for yourself. Consumers should know the truth about this company.
My objection was mostly due to the fact that you were simply copying/pasting the same comment and posting it in every thread in which you found the name "Advanta." I read it over and over again. I was tired of reading it. You weren't discussing anything or saying anything new--you were just spamming against Advanta. These forums are meant to be for discussions, not canned posts. NOW you're participating in the discussion. That's great!

You're certainly entitled to your opinion about Advanta. But if you do a Google search for any other bank you'll find similar sites with similar diatribes against those other banks. Every major bank has dissatisfied customers--and satisfied ones. They have many millions of customers of course--no one can please everyone.

I've had no problems with Advanta. It started me with a $2500 credit limit a few years back and that card now has a $25,000 credit limit. I've made several hundred dollars from its cash back rewards. Its rates to me are higher than I'd expect on a business card, so I don't carry a balance beyond the grace period. I've never paid a dime in interest or fees. For my purposes, it's an OK card and I'll continue to use it. For those who pay interest, I'd agree with you--the rates are too high.

Referring back to the post from Polonious, you can't pay off the existing debt at the old rates. If you fail to "opt out" of the new terms, they apply to the existing debt as well. If you "opt out", they will close your account but cannot by law apply the new terms to your account balance. Problem is, most people don't realize that they can opt out of new terms until it is too late.
Well, the option to opt out and pay off at the old terms is right in the letter announcing the new terms. If people don't read the letters they get from the banks, whose fault is that?

Don't get me wrong here--I don't like these sudden rate increases either. But as long as you're told in advance about them AND are told that you don't have to agree to them, what's the problem? You don't have to pay the higher rate--opt out and pay what you owe at the rate you knew you were paying...and don't use the card again. It's your choice.

It's not YOUR money--it's ADVANTA's money. If you don't like the terms under which it lends money, don't borrow under those terms. Why be angry at ADVANTA? Anger is pointless. Just go elsewhere if you have to borrow.
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Re: Advanta Problems - Please Beware

Postby mnmfence on Mon Oct 27, 2008 12:45 pm

I have had my Advanta Business account for over 9 years. Never late, never missed a payment. Credit score over 750. They have been raising my percentage rate ever month. . New rate is 36.31%. I paid off card last month. Called them again today when I received my new statement because of new rate again. How can our government keep letting these banks rips us off? I have filed a complaint with my attorney general I live in Florida and I suggest everyone else do the same.
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Re: Advanta Problems - Please Beware

Postby telink1000 on Tue Oct 28, 2008 12:45 pm

Credit card holders cry foul
Philadelphia Business Journal - by Jeff Blumenthal Staff Writer
Friday, October 24, 2008 | Modified: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 - 8:00 AM


Michael Collins almost spit out one of the specialty brews from his startup coffee shop when he received a notice earlier this month from Advanta Corp. saying the interest rate for his business credit card was increasing from 7.99 percent to 25 percent.

Collins, who opened Emerald City Coffee and Bistro in Hagerstown, Md., six months ago and used an Advanta card to foot the bill, had made all prior payments on time and says he has a credit score exceeding 700.

When he contacted Spring House-based Advanta, he said a customer service representative told him it used a model to calculate the increases based on the current troublesome economic conditions and that his business and many others had become higher risks despite not missing payments. Collins said he asked to see the formula used, but Advanta said that was proprietary.

Collins said he already had to lay off two of his three employees and might have to close the shop.

“I owe $9,000 and could easily pay that back at 7.99 percent but it will be too difficult at 25 percent to pay it off in a reasonable time,” Collins said.

The credit crunch has affected Advanta and other business credit card issuers who are grappling with rising delinquencies and a lack of capital. Consumer protection Web sites are flooded with stories like the one described by Collins.

Advanta spokesman David Goodman offered a statement when contacted regarding this story.

“Consistent with the industry and our cardholder agreement, we periodically evaluate each of our customers’ accounts to assess their ongoing creditworthiness and overall lending risk,” Goodman said. “In addition, each customer that receives a rate increase is given the opportunity to opt out, in which case their previously effective rate would remain in effect until the balance is paid off in the ordinary course, and their account would otherwise be closed.”

Advanta enforces a deadline by which a customer must respond to activate the opt out agreement. Collins said he did not receive the first notice, which Advanta said it sent out Sept. 15, giving him until Oct. 3 to exercise the opt out. So he is stuck with the 25 percent interest rate.

Matthew McKenney, a principal with Haddon Heights, N.J.-based manufacturer representative Maxwell McKenney, an 80-year-old family business, took advantage of the opt out after his interest rate was increased from 7 percent to 30 percent. He said his company signed up for an Advanta card roughly a year ago.

“I was offered a fixed rate, which I thought meant it was not subject to change,” McKenney said. “I think this violates the terms of the agreement. But rather than fight them, I decided to take the opt out and will never do business with them again.”

Associate Professor of Finance Jonathan Scott said his class of MBA students who are small business executives at Temple University’s Fox School of Business told him these major interest rate hikes have become common in recent months. Scott said credit card issuers might want to cut assets so they have more reasonable asset-to-capital ratios.

“They are just trying to send a signal that they don’t want your business, because it’s not natural to go from 7 percent to 30 percent,” Scott said.


Analyst Scott Valentin of Friedman Billings Ramsey & Co. said in a recent note that delinquencies and default rates rose to all-time highs in September for Advanta, reflecting the deteriorating credit performance of small businesses. Defaults rose last month to 11.02 percent of Advanta’s loan trusts, compared with 4.76 percent a year prior and 4.69 percent in December. The delinquency rate rose to 6.47 percent from 3.22 percent a year ago. Early-stage delinquencies, which include borrowers 30 to 59 days late in payments, increased from roughly 1 percent to 1.92 percent in the past year.

Edward Nelling, associate professor of finance in the LeBow College of Business at Drexel University, said this is yet another effect of the credit crunch.

“Under normal circumstances, a small business could move on to another company or a bank,” Nelling said. “But bank credit has dried up and credit card companies have all increased rates.”

The most difficult part for small businesses is that their company’s profitability and credit history are not a major factor in the decision to increase rates.

“Issuers are looking ahead even if the customer’s payment schedule has been good, they are predicting more risk,” Nelling said. “Even if the risk for your business hasn’t changed, you bear the brunt for more risky customers.”
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Re: Advanta Problems - Please Beware

Postby Polonius on Wed Oct 29, 2008 9:13 am

telink, by my count you've posted the same article--in full--FOUR TIMES today. Isn't once enough?

I know you've got a bug about Advanta. You're entitled. But what do you expect Advanta to do in light of its increasing losses? What's your solution? Collins is complaining about a 17% interest rise on his $9000 debt to Advanta--Advanta is asking him to pay less than $5 per day more than he is paying now. And he's pointing to that somehow as the reason his business his failing and he's had to lay off 2 of 3 employees. $5 per day? His business is in big trouble, obviously, if he can't find an extra $5 per day. So is Advanta wrong to be worried that he won't repay his debt to Advanta?
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Re: Advanta Problems - Please Beware

Postby Just Stunned on Wed Nov 05, 2008 2:23 am

I too have been blindsided by Advanta . Their recent rate hike is insane . I discovered the increase when I was paying my bill. I did not receive THE LETTER alerting me to the increase. Needlss to say that when I contacted them it was to late to opt out. I have never been late with a payment and have always paid more than the amount required . When I called to ask why the reason they gave me was that I MIGHT DEFAULT ! I have never defaulted on a debt not business or personal. My credit score is over 750 and I have worked hard to earn it . I have to say that I just can't understand their logic . Why when they are receiving on time payments each month and have yet to lose one dime on my account stick me with an interest rate that is almost impossible to pay ? Who can pay 35% interest and survive ? Isn't this the practice that Payday Loan Companies got in trouble for? If this is not illegal at the very least it is immoral to treat people this way. It certainly speaks about the lack of integrity shown by the Advanta Company. Now about the letter that I never received ,I need to be sure I'm clear on the opt-out terms. Did Advanta say they would close the account and allow us to continue making payments at the 7.9% rate until paid in full ? If this is true it would take a complete FOOL to not accept that offer. I guess that explains why so many of us did not receive THE LETTER.
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Re: Advanta Problems - Please Beware

Postby NightStar on Wed Nov 05, 2008 1:49 pm

Sorry to hear, I just wish there was a way to warn everyone at once, so this could not keep happening. Business debt is not regulated like personal debt. They seem to increase rates without having to ever give notice. That is just not right.
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Nightstar >>> Re: Advanta Problems - Please Beware

Postby VforVengeance on Mon Nov 10, 2008 10:45 pm

Ms. Pamilla Allen aka Nightstar:

You have me very, very confused. You are a cardrating.com board monitor. Indeed, you started this thread.

Yet, four of the "Editor Picks" on cardrating.com offers are Advanta cards. That's just the first page.

What's that smell?
*******************************

Never missed a payment on anything. Never got any letter. Rate jumped from 7.99% to 31.31%.

Congress should fix this issue, before they give more taxpayer money to the people who stole the money in the first place.

Congress is in a better position to turn this around than your AG. Your representatives make the laws and change them. Your AG enforces them.

Don't call your Attorney General.
Call your Congressman, Senators, and state representatives and tell them to stop this scam from taking effect and fix it NOW.
Then call your AG.
Then call your representatives again. Repeat.
All Reps keep a tally of calls and issues.

Or don't call, and let your representatives take more of your money to reward the businesses that caused the problem in the first place.
Why shouldn't they if you don't seem to mind? How are they supposed to know you mind if you don't call? Mindreading?

BTW, if you're in business, your representatives names and numbers should be at your fingertips.
If they aren't, maybe you shouldn't be in business.
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Re: Advanta Problems - Please Beware

Postby Polonius on Tue Nov 11, 2008 10:04 am

Look at the GoogleAd on the top of this page. I think it's hilarious.

It's an ad for an Advanta Business Card! "0% APR for 15 mos. 7.99% thereafter Build business credit. Apply Now!
Advanta.com" The 7.99% was based on a prime rate of 5% plus 2.99% at the time the ad was prepared; that should be down to 6.99% now that the prime is 4%. Sounds pretty good to me!

Of course, Google's ads are determined by the content of the page they're on. This page is about Advanta, so Google serves up an Advanta ad.

What Advanta is doing is perfectly legal, so I don't see the point of writing to anyone about it. Writing to a Congressperson is a nice exercise in civics--some staff member will put a check mark next to the "for interest rate reduction on credit cards" tally sheet for you. It's not going to have much effect until many others do the same. No harm in trying.

As I keep saying, if you don't like the terms offered by any card issuer, pay off the account and go elsewhere. If you can't pay it off or can't go elsewhere, well, then the issuer has you by the gonads and probably knows it--and that could be why your rates increased.

BTW, Pam so far as I know doesn't work for CardRatings.com and has nothing to do with its marketing deals. Note that one of the moderators died almost a year ago and his name still appears as a moderator. Note how many of the other supposed moderators never post anything. This is hardly a well-run bulletin board!
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Re: Advanta Problems - Please Beware

Postby NightStar on Tue Nov 11, 2008 10:20 am

I didn't notice the google add with Advanta, I had nothing to do with that. I work on my own, I help mainly in the general credit section if you have questions about credit reporting issues.

I am use to advising people on personal credit not business credit.

I also help on this site, by adding ratings to posts and moving them to the appropriate section of the board. I did make initial posts in each section asking people to rate each card. But that was not an endorsement, that was just asking for people to tell us what they know about these companies.

I don't believe people should get busienss credit if they don't need it, personal credit is better, their are laws protecting consumers where there are none protecting personal credit from business debt.

Yeah Ira is missed, he posted more in the credit card section and it has been a loss not having him on the board any more. I have been reading up more in the credit card section but it is not my area of expertise.
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Polonis-you're a doof

Postby jfwilder2 on Tue Nov 18, 2008 4:48 pm

Polonius, sorry to burst your bubble, but Advanta is the one that is the wrong-doer here. My business is not failing, though I have had to cut where I can to survive the economic downturn. As a new business, I was doing well and an extra $150 during most months is no big deal. In lean times, it is. That and going to a situation (it's 28.7% by the way, not 25%) that I can pay down principal, to one where it is interest only is not an acceptable item in a business model. I did not charge anything further since my initial investment, and paid everything on time, always. That includes my home where I still have equity even without the drop in prices. $150 pays a part time helper around 15 hours including payroll tax and all that.

In cutting one person to make up for that, I couldn't stay open as late to BUILD my business more and scaled back hours to be more manageable until lean times get better and I work things out to get Advanta to back down. As for the need to lay off a second person, that's related to scaling back to work things myself....or I'd have them here for the slower periods to build up clientel during slower hours I can't work (in case you didn't know a human being needs some time for a 5 year old kid to have a dad around) so I don't open until 9pm any more...so long 2nd person. Where one goes, the other goes by necessity to keep fit into the KISS model.

$5 bucks a day is between 1 and 2 drinks a day extra, and if you cound cost of goods, more than that...so to drag more people in who are now brown-bagging and skipping their 2-a-days is not easy. As an independent, I don't have the big bucks daddy starbucks has to market me (and they are closing another 600 stores soon too) and $150 per month (until they raised it again like they do to the others) is not ethical, and the way they went about it, not legal. There was no 30-day notice to opt out....rather 18 including their time shipping their notice to me. Bullocks!

Advanta has lost a lawsuit for doing these shenanigans in 1998-1999, so this is nothing new to have them playing the same game. And why should MY profit and business model suffer because of their incapability to lend responsibly to everybody with SUB-PAR credit who has not paid them. I still am, even while in dispute, and will until my attorney gets the verdict in the class action coming soon against them.

Sounds to me like you work for Advanta. I worked in financing too...and fully understand good credit. Lots of people I advised are broke now because they didn't get fixed rates I advised them to. I got a fixed rate and they changed their rules halfway into the 1st year of their game...not just on me, but hundreds.

So polonius...bolonius...whatever....just so you know, after getting some legal help and filing multiple agency complaints (FTC, FDIC, BBB, Atty General, Comptroller's office and more), they did back down. Am I still persuing legal recourse. You will find out when it hits the paper...and it needs to be done on behalf of all the other people they are ripping off even larger-scale than they ripped me off.

Thanks very much go out to Jeff Blumenthal who was already aware of the rip-off company Advanta is and for publishing the article in the Philadelphia Business Journal. More people like him need to get involved in shedding light on companies that are still sticking their hands out for bailout money and using it to buy the knives they stick in our backs.

Sounds like you are part of the "Trickle Down" mentality that had the Michigan lady withholding candy from Obama supporter kids. Asshole.
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Re: Advanta Problems - Please Beware

Postby Alaskan Assassin on Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:42 pm

jfwilder2:::

we dont talk like this on this forum please dont doit again THANKS


Sounds like you are part of the "Trickle Down" mentality that had the Michigan lady withholding candy from Obama supporter kids. Asshole.
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Re: Advanta Problems - Please Beware

Postby jfwilder2 on Wed Nov 19, 2008 8:35 am

Alaskan Assassin,

Sorry about the a-hole comment, but I do call them as I see them. Polonius does not know my situation and seems to think $5 can grow on trees or fall from the sky every day. Sorry if this seems abbreviated, but I wrote this once and thought it posted...and didn't so I'm rewriting again.

First, Advanta did not provide a 30 day notice to opt out. Because they don't ask for an EIN or any other info, and base things on your personal SS#, the card's rules fall under the personal credit laws, that accoring to my attorney. Sendnig a notice by snail mail with 18 days to reply???? Hmmmm. Second, my FICO is 780 and I have only one other card with any balance on it, and paid all my bills either early or completely off early.

As for my business failing...I have made adjustments and am ok, even in this economic downturn, but $150 would pay 15 hours for a part timer. That would allow me to open later or have more help at certain hours. Whatever the justification for laying off 2 people, because 1 went, my model changed. Anything further is none of his business as Polonius isn't my customer nor do I want him darkening my door anyway.

Advanta is clearly trying to grasp onto profit anyway they can to keep Wall Street happy...and their shareholders. Why should I have to pay for their mistake in lending to people who can't pay bills? I still can and am paying them, even while in dispute. The issue with $5 per day is that it is now ALL interest, and if I want to pay it down, have to pay substantially more. The rate was actually 28.7% and like the others out there, likely to increase monthly until it's near 40%...that's their pattern...I am catching this early before it gets there. There are HUNDREDS of posts out there that can confirm they are operating with a pattern of abuse (no notifications, people with good credit getting blind-sided).

When I asked why, they said simply that "because of current economic conditions, you no longer fit our lending model" and consider me a risk along with others in my class now. When asked how to get back to 7.99%, they said there was no way as they don't offer that any more. Why, then, is it still being advertised? Hmmmm...#2. I asked again if there were any circumstance I could fit to get the 7.99 and was told no again. When I asked Ted (the supervisor) point blank if they just raised my rates just because they could, he said yes. When asked to see my original terms, they refused to send them.

So you know, they can withhold that information until you file a lawsuit, at which time you are not considered a member of the general public any longer...and they are required to send it. That according to my attorney. I have filed a complaint with the FTC, FDIC, Comptroller's Office and many more. Many thanks to Jeff Blumenthal of the Philadelphia Business Journal for exposing Advanta for what they are. I hope that this can make it to other business journals to help people stay away from this company.

Because of my efforts, Advanta has resent me the opt-out notice. I will need to close my account in order to get that 7.99% back, even though I haven't charged in months and have 3k left available I could use to foot the legal bill against them. For now, I have joined 45 others who are working on a class action and am still looking to persue an individual lawsuit, if I can raise the $1500 legal fee to do so. So...Polonius, if you or anyone else want to contribute to the legal fee to see if I'm right, send your $5 to my paypal account collinsm65 @ gmail.com (without spaces-had to put in so it posts) and I'll even buy you a latte if you ever get down here...or anyone else who contributes for that matter the $5 or more. I will make sure to mention your names on my website (if they post it here) emeraldcitycoffee.net or if they don't post it, just search google for Emerald City Coffee in Hagerstown, MD. As a new business owner, Polonius should know that things are tight...and $150 can go a long way...or in his case maybe cover a bottle of wine since he seems so well off.

So you all know, if one wins a lawsuit like this, you will receive triple damages. Should I win, I will hold an open house for all those contributing to the legal fee and make sure you benefit from the court findings so some good comes out of this. I do hope they post this since I am asking for a bailout that is well more deserved than the Wall Street fat cats...I promise I won't go to Vegas or give out bonuses like AIG execs (well maybe a gift for my one employee for Christmas anyway...she deserves something). My only other question/comment is that does it seem Polonius works for a credit card company...why would anyone give that much benefit of the doubt to them?
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Re: Advanta Problems - Please Beware

Postby Polonius on Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:27 am

Well, let's see. If you read the more than 4000 posts I've made in this forum over the years, I doubt you'd still think I'm a shill for Atlanta or any bank. Even reading this thread through without your blinders on, you'll see that I said the interest Advanta was charging was ridiculously high for a business account and that I would advise anyone faced with such interest to not pay it. Pay off the debt and, if you must carry a balance, carry it on a lower-interest card or something else (like a loan on your house).

Now, I gather that you are claiming to be the Michael Collins mentioned in the article above. OK. I'll assume you are. Here's some more advice for you then. You say you've hired an attorney for a class action suit that you will win against Advanta. First thing I advise you to do is fire the attorney. If he told you that Advanta has to give you 30 days notice for a rate increase, he doesn't know the law. Check this:
How often can the bank change the rate on my credit card account?

Generally, a national bank can change the rate and other terms on a credit card account at its discretion. However, it can do so only if it discloses those changed terms to you at least 15 days in advance.
That quote is from:
http://www.helpwithmybank.gov/faqs/cred ... tml#drop03
which is the official government site of the Controller of the Currency, which regulates banks. 15 days, not 30 days.

You say you didn't get the letter that Advanta says it sent to you. Unfortunately, that doesn't matter. Many of us--including me--did get similar letters. Failure to receive notice is not a defense against the terms changing on your account. Advanta can easily prove it mailed those letters. You have no way to prove you didn't receive yours--and even if you didn't receive it, mailing the letter is regarded as legal notice.

And, quite frankly sir, the fact that you're bent out of shape for an additional $5 in business costs per day means you really are not going to be successful in your own business. You have no capital. You have no reserves. You say you have equity in your home, but why haven't you borrowed on that at prime or less (4%) to repay the $9,000 you owe Advanta on which you're paying 28.6%? Anyone who starts a business has to be prepared to go a year or more at a loss. Few businesses make money from day one. And anyone who goes into business for himself has to be prepared to make the effort and risk what he has and work hard. Being with your kid is more important to you than your business? OK--then go back to being an employee.

Advanta clearly ran its profiling software and concluded you were a risk. Such software makes dumb decisions at times. You can hate Advanta and disagree with its decision, but Advanta is trying to limit its own losses and reduce its risks, and it is willing to lose you as a customer if that's what it takes to do so.

And maybe, just maybe, if you spent your time working harder to earn more instead of filing class action suits and talking with reporters and berating unknown anonymous people who disagree with you on Internet chat boards--you might be better off. We're all assholes, after all. Why waste your time on us?

Good luck to you.
Polonius
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Re: Advanta Problems - Please Beware

Postby jfwilder2 on Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:33 pm

Well I don't have time to run through 4000 post, nor the time to put 4000 posts in. Time to be with kid...Hmmm....seems at least I don't have executive jets to shuttle me and my kid aroud like Palin did on our dime to places kids weren't invited to....but those with money can do pretty much any damned thing they want anyway, legal or not. You must not have any kids there old Ebenezer, or you'd understand and not retaliate at me for wanting a couple hours with her. I have a second job too that supplements my income since there are slower periods where it serves better to do that than be open and have overhead, payroll and all that...and makes up for times where being open isn't worth it (like a Sunday evening) at the moment.

Aside from that, I tried to look at your link...didn't work but will look more at it by searching the site. The comptroller of currency's office has no jurusdiction over Advanta as it's not a "national bank"...no "N.A." after it...and per the letter I got from them when making an inquiry. I've had three attornies tell me about the 30 day issue....will look further into that too...one being wrong can happen...three??? Five bucks isn't much...though to make five bucks, anyone knows you have to sell more than that because of cost of goods and all that....so it isn't just one more cup of coffee and that's that. Either way, I am prepared to and have gone a length without income and made adaptations to build sales and stay afloat during the tough times, but I certainly don't need a company to come in and start grabbing money from my pockets either. Advanta's kinda like the kid who trick-or-treats, then comes back for more to the same houses after putting on a new mask.

That $5 per day does amount to $1800+ per year, not to count the interest on top of the principal I am not paying down since it's all interest as well. I doubt most people wouldn't complain about an $1800 raise, but wouldn't you **** if someone said to reduce your salary by $1800? Probably not since it sounds like you're loaded with time to post 4000 articles. I just happened to come across this thread and bookmarked it and I type fast...so I don't waste hours on end here.

It isn't just me they're ripping off, and being as deceiptful as they are about the whole issue....and losing a similar lawsuit in 1998...they are just up to their old practices. Whether or not they can prove they mailed them doesn't seem to be relevant since a pattern has established itself, and has been proven in court already under similar circumstance. Maybe you aren't a shill...and maybe quoted their rate as rediculous, but Advanta is deceptive in its practices and has been proven to be abusive in more than one instance. I borrowed money and intend on paying what I borrowed back, but will not give them a dime of my reserves, nor take equity out of my house to pay for something like that either...not with this mortgage market, and being newly self-employed, not likely to get that either, even with 780 FICO and equity.

I have a good clientele and am holding my own, even with the economy as crappy as it is, so you can't complain my model isn't working. I'm not flying off to D.C. on an executive jet to ask for a hand-out either. I did what I had to do to survive without taking more than what is due to me. I'm paying my bills, my taxes and I pay my employee. I am doing more than just breaking even, which in this economy for being open only 6 months is fantastic. I just don't need companies taking more than they are deserving of and calling me a risk when they won't justify why, then tell me there's not even a sliver of a chance to not be considered a risk and that there's no 7.99% any more when they are still advertising it.

Why won't I take a loan on my home to pay them off? Because, unlike the millions who did and are now upside down and foreclosing, I am not going to take hard-earned equity and a home loan with a rediculously low interest rate, and risk that to pay off a company that went beyond what is reasonable, and on an amount that is unsecured in the first place and is not putting my home at risk if I (heaven forbid) couldn't pay it off. 7.99% is reasonable. 28.7% is not...and that's just their first step on the way up further like they do to all the countless others...don't even try to deny that's not in their hand of cards. I just caught it early and am not backing down like they hope that I will and just go away.

And yes, I am the guy in the article. Want me to send you a bean so you can count it?
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Re: Advanta Problems - Please Beware

Postby NightStar on Fri Nov 21, 2008 7:03 pm

Hey I hear what you are saying about Advanta, and I agree with you, but you need to cut it out with the name calling. We try to keep on top of that and not want any fights over differences.

Thanks,
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Re: Advanta Problems - Please Beware

Postby Polonius on Sat Nov 22, 2008 6:18 pm

Let's get the 15/30 day issue out of the way. Three attorneys can't look up the Truth in Lending law? Amazing. Here's the money quote:
(c) Change in terms. (1) Written notice required. Whenever any term required to be disclosed under § 226.6 is changed or the required minimum periodic payment is increased, the creditor shall mail or deliver written notice of the change to each consumer who may
{{6-30-06 p.6652.06-A}}be affected. The notice shall be mailed or delivered at least 15 days prior to the effective date of the change. The 15-day timing requirement does not apply if the change has been agreed to by the consumer, or if a periodic rate or other finance charge is increased because of the consumer's delinquency or default; the notice shall be given, however, before the effective date of the change.

That's from:
http://www.fdic.gov/regulations/laws/ru ... #6500226.9
I'm not an attorney and I don't claim to be one, but I seriously doubt that the fact that Advanta isn't a national bank plays any role whatever. The law refers to "creditors" and defines a creditor this way:
(f) The term "creditor" refers only to a person who both (1) regularly extends, whether in connection with loans, sales of property or services, or otherwise, consumer credit which is payable by agreement in more than four installments or for which the payment of a finance charge is or may be required, and (2) is the person to whom the debt arising from the consumer credit transaction is initially payable on the face of the evidence of indebtedness or, if there is no such evidence of indebtedness, by agreement. Notwithstanding the preceding sentence, in the case of an open-end credit plan involving a credit card, the card issuer and any person who honors the credit card and offers a discount which is a finance charge are creditors. For the purpose of the requirements imposed under chapter 4 and sections 127(a)(5), 127(a)(6), 127(a)(7), 127(b)(1), 127(b)(2), 127(b)(3), 127(b)(8), and 127(b)(10) of chapter 2 of this title, the term "creditor" shall also include card issuers whether or not the amount due is payable by agreement in more than four installments or the payment of a finance charge is or may be required, and the Board shall, by regulation, apply these requirements to such card issuers, to the extent appropriate, even though the requirements are by their terms applicable only to creditors offering open-end credit plans. Any person who originates 2 or more mortgages referred to in subsection (aa) in any 12-month period or any person who originates 1 or more such mortgages through a mortgage broker shall be considered to be a creditor for purposes of this title.

Source:
http://www.fdic.gov/regulations/laws/ru ... ml#6500104

Anyhow, we're mixing up a lot of points in this discussion. We're talking about what's legal, what's fair, why it happened, and what's the best approach to handle it. Some of what I've said is personal opinion only. Let me summarize real briefly.

1) I think what Advanta is doing is legal, but I could be wrong.
2) I don't think it's fair to its cardholders. It doesn't come close to being fair. But the situation is desperate for creditors these days. People with great credit ratings and no defaults and no sign of ever going into default are suddenly drawing down their credit lines and not paying them back. It's an enormous problem and the credit issuers are broke. They can't handle the loans. They can't sell the loans. They don't know what to do about the unpaid debts. So they're trying, desperately, to reduce their exposure. That causes hardships if you don't have an alternative. BUT if you don't have an alternative, the creditor is right to be afraid you're going to default. The fact that YOU did not pay off the loan at once when you saw that 28.6% rate shows you don't have any quick resources to pay it off...and that is worrisome from the creditors' viewpoint.
3) Why it happened is above--creditors simply can't go by the usual rules. They're looking at sudden, massive increases in unpaid loans from formerly-good customers, with no warning whatever. The creditors are ALSO trying to survive.
4) How to handle it. Again, my personal viewpoint. You opt out. If you missed the deadline, you try to opt out anyway. If you can't, you pay it off if you can at once. You look for alternatives at lower rates if you can't pay it off. You spend your time doing what you do best to earn the most money you can, rather than dealing with things that cost you money, like attorneys.

Good grief, guy--it's $5 more per day. If you're that close to the brink, you're in big trouble. Sorry, but that's how I see it. One illness and you're gone. My wife had a minor hand operation last week--it was $10,000 and she was an outpatient. I've been unemployed since April 1 myself. You have a family. You have a kid. Whatever possessed you to start a business in this climate, with no resources to withstand losses? You say you have equity in your home. Why haven't you tried to tap in to it to pay off the $9K? You say you won't tap in to pay the interest. But you admit you owe the $9K--so pay it and STOP the interest completely to Advanta. You're tilting at windmills and wasting your time. Pay the $9K, trash the Advanta card, and be done with it. The more you delay paying, the more that 28.6% will cost you. What you're doing is based on emotion and not sense. If your business model is working so well, great. So what's the problem?

My other opinion is that when you're self-employed, you learn that you must handle your business or you go under. Lots of people have kids and spend more time away from them then they'd like. The business needs the attention. If you can't afford an employee to do a job, you do it yourself. You find the time. You sacrifice and struggle and do without. If you do not want to do that, I don't blame you. But then face reality and close the business down. Again, my opinion. No one says it's easy.

And I meant it when I wished you good luck. I still wish you good luck. These are tough times for many of us, and it's going to get worse.
Polonius
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Re: Advanta Problems - Please Beware

Postby footcare on Thu Dec 04, 2008 8:29 pm


Anyhow, we're mixing up a lot of points in this discussion. We're talking about what's legal, what's fair, why it happened, and what's the best approach to handle it. Some of what I've said is personal opinion only. Let me summarize real briefly.

1) I think what Advanta is doing is legal, but I could be wrong.
2) I don't think it's fair to its cardholders. It doesn't come close to being fair. But the situation is desperate for creditors these days. People with great credit ratings and no defaults and no sign of ever going into default are suddenly drawing down their credit lines and not paying them back. It's an enormous problem and the credit issuers are broke. They can't handle the loans. They can't sell the loans. They don't know what to do about the unpaid debts. So they're trying, desperately, to reduce their exposure. That causes hardships if you don't have an alternative. BUT if you don't have an alternative, the creditor is right to be afraid you're going to default. The fact that YOU did not pay off the loan at once when you saw that 28.6% rate shows you don't have any quick resources to pay it off...and that is worrisome from the creditors' viewpoint.
3) Why it happened is above--creditors simply can't go by the usual rules. They're looking at sudden, massive increases in unpaid loans from formerly-good customers, with no warning whatever. The creditors are ALSO trying to survive.
4) How to handle it. Again, my personal viewpoint. You opt out. If you missed the deadline, you try to opt out anyway. If you can't, you pay it off if you can at once. You look for alternatives at lower rates if you can't pay it off. You spend your time doing what you do best to earn the most money you can, rather than dealing with things that cost you money, like attorneys.

Good grief, guy--it's $5 more per day. If you're that close to the brink, you're in big trouble. Sorry, but that's how I see it. One illness and you're gone. My wife had a minor hand operation last week--it was $10,000 and she was an outpatient. I've been unemployed since April 1 myself. You have a family. You have a kid. Whatever possessed you to start a business in this climate, with no resources to withstand losses? You say you have equity in your home. Why haven't you tried to tap in to it to pay off the $9K? You say you won't tap in to pay the interest. But you admit you owe the $9K--so pay it and STOP the interest completely to Advanta. You're tilting at windmills and wasting your time. Pay the $9K, trash the Advanta card, and be done with it. The more you delay paying, the more that 28.6% will cost you. What you're doing is based on emotion and not sense. If your business model is working so well, great. So what's the problem?

My other opinion is that when you're self-employed, you learn that you must handle your business or you go under. Lots of people have kids and spend more time away from them then they'd like. The business needs the attention. If you can't afford an employee to do a job, you do it yourself. You find the time. You sacrifice and struggle and do without. If you do not want to do that, I don't blame you. But then face reality and close the business down. Again, my opinion. No one says it's easy.

And I meant it when I wished you good luck. I still wish you good luck. These are tough times for many of us, and it's going to get worse.


Some thoughts:

1. You think what Advanta is doing is legal. You have already posted federal regulations showing these credit card companies (Advanta Bank) showing that if your not late on your payments, Advanta is mandated by law to give their customers at least 15 days notice to "OPT OUT" of any changes to their credit card agreement. There are for a fact over 260+ customers in the past 6 months that never received this so called Opt Out notice they claim they sent. I know 100% for sure that 80+ of them are verified they never got it including myself and an attorney I'm working with. All these people 100% check each piece of mail that comes into their office, and none has received the notice. This did not in any way give Advanta the right to sneak in their predatory interest rate increases and changing all these credit card agreements without legitimate notice.
2. So people didn't have the money to pay off their cards when they raised their rates. This statement is nonsense. If the banks couldn't afford to lend out all the money they did, they should not have given people a credit limit and cheap interest rates. If they get into financial trouble, it is not the least the consumer's fault. It is poor management on the banks part. Advanta has typically only issued credit cards to people with excellent credit, high FICO scores, and never missed payments. They go out at this moment and advertise 0% for 15 months and then 7.99% thereafter which is plenty of money for them. If they can't afford to offer these terms, that is their problem, not the small business owner who they are raping by raising their rates as high as they would get from Lenny the Loan Shark. The banks hardship is not the consumers problem. It is the bank's problem they brought upon themselves. They have no business whatsoever screwing over the small business card holder to make up their losses with their predatory practices.
3. You are right. The banks and credit card companies are trying to survive. It is unfortunate for the banks and the credit card companies. Same story for our 3 main auto companies. They have no busness taking it out on their small business owners who met all their agreements, many for years. If they can't survive, it's their own fault. Let them go out of business like the nutjobs at Lehman Brothers. Small Business credit cards carry considerable more risk for a bank like Advanta because they offer much higher credit lines than a typical consumer credit card. That is unfortunate for the bank, but is a risk they take. If you don't think they are sneaky with their credit card agreements, look closely at the latest terms they offer all over the US. Advanta is the largest smalll business credit card bank. They have had to increase allowances for losses, but they are still doing well. Back to the point, in their latest agreement, they offer a balance transfer rate for 15 months I believe it is, and then 7.99% thereafter. Here's the kicker. Their offer is predatory and useless at the same time. Since about Sept. 2008, they have a clause in their agreement that says they can change anything in your credit card agreement for any reason whatsoever for any reason they feel like anytime they feel like doing so. This tries to skirt the ole Opt Out agreement. Their earlier agreements and the majority of most credit card companies follow the rules for Optinng Out and only increase your rate if you default or after you accept an Opt Out notice. Just imagine if you got one of these new Advanta credit cards with 0% for 15 months for instance, and Advanta starts losing more and more money. They could jack your rate to anything they feel like anytime they want, so what good does it do to offer these low rate terms knowing they will probably increase them inthe not too distant future?/ This is suckering in small business owners to get their cards. Statistics I think show that only about 40% of them read the fine print, which is their fault. But, the bank should not be capitalizing on this. That is just plain unethical.
4. You deal with Advanta in the harshest way possible. They are wrong and are caving in right and left because they know they are wong. They need to be sued. They need to pay for their unscrupilous and predatory practices. An attorney in PA sued them in small claims court for his client in the past couple of months and won his client's ridiculous interest amount he paid back for over $2,600. Advanta coughed up the money they overcharged in 2 weeks. Others are having to close their accounts but are getting their interest they overpaid returned from Advanta via complaiints through the Utah BBB. The FDIC has helped some others get their money back. What does this tell you? They feel sorry for these people so they are now giving them back their money? I don't think so. Advanta acquired like 67,000 new customers last year. So they screw over 200 or 300 or 1,000 of them. They could care less. They are giving the money back so they don't get sued.

You are quite correct on the balance of your message in my opinion.
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Re: Advanta Problems - Please Beware

Postby Polonius on Sat Dec 06, 2008 5:15 pm

1) I got the notice Advanta says it sent. By law it just has to mail the notice. Of the people who say they didn't get the notice, some really didn't get, some got it and threw it away as junk mail (or someone in their household did), or they got it and read it and are lying about not getting it. Be realistic. Advanta wouldn't have any problem showing it printed and mailed these letters.

2) If you sue a corporation in small claims court, the corporation has to pay an attorney to represent it. Often it's easier just to pay the law suit rather than defend against it.

Again, I'm no fan of Advanta. Go ahead and sue the ****, and good luck to you. I prefer to spend my time making money so I don't have to rely on lawsuits to get me out of problems with banks. And I still say that if you can't pay off a credit card when you're rate-jacked, you're not handling your finances well. You shouldn't be at the mercy of a bank. If you are, you're in trouble. And that's true whether the bank has grabbed you by the gonads like reported here or not.

I'm speaking, by the way, as someone who has been self-employed for decades and who lost my one job working as an employee back in April. I know what it's like to be on the edge. I deal with it and live with it. Sometimes it's not easy. But I can only control what I do, not what others do. I try to be prepared for anything unexpected. So far, so good.
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Re: Advanta Problems - Please Beware

Postby footcare on Sat Dec 06, 2008 5:45 pm

You could be absolutely correct on the opt out statements, but I have discussed with 85 businesses that meticuously check their mail. Only 2 of them in recent months received such a statement. I open all my mail and I know for a fact I didn't get mine. I am curious where in the "by law" does it say they just have to mail the opt out notice?? Advanta of course will claim they mailed them all.

For the most part, you are correct, that if you can pay your credit card when they jacked your rate, you are doing a much better job of managing your finances. It is just unfortunate Advanta takes advantage of those who got stuck not being able to by increasing their rates. They did played by the rules and made their payments on time, every time. That doesn't give Advanta the right to do them in.

Most lawsuits are settled before they ever get to court for the very reason you mention. It is cheaper to settle than to pay their attorneys to defend against it. If they went to court, they also risk having to pay out more. When they just settle quickly and move on, they also have a chance to go out and do the same thing to someone else.
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Re: Advanta Problems - Please Beware

Postby Polonius on Sun Dec 07, 2008 9:36 am

I am curious where in the "by law" does it say they just have to mail the opt out notice??


Check my post on Nov. 22nd 7:18 PM above where I quoted the actual law:

The notice shall be mailed or delivered at least 15 days prior to the effective date of the change.


It only has to be mailed. Doesn't matter whether the recipient got it or not, legally. (Again, I'm not an attorney--but that sentence seems pretty clear to me.)
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Re: Advanta Problems - Please Beware

Postby footcare on Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:47 pm

I spoke with the attorney today working on a class action lawsuit against Advanta. They can claim they mailed an opt out notice in the mail but this is a claim that is challengeable in court and can be refuted. It is not an automatic assumption that they will believe the bank actually did mail it by they just claim they sent it. When over 250 people that have now filed complaints that they have never received the opt out notice that they decided to jack their interest rates, I would say it is highly unlikely anyone would believe Advanta actually mailed it as they claim.
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Re: Advanta Problems - Please Beware

Postby Advanta Victim on Sun Dec 14, 2008 6:27 am

Advanta is a predator!!! Jacked my rate to 36% for absolutely no reason - no late payments, no missed payments - told me it was to protect themselves against the coming credit problems they expect across the board. Even after months of on time payments they refuse to lower the rate to something reasonable. They will basically admit to abusing you if you ask.

Their opt-out information was buried in tiny text and gave me less than one week to have mailed back in their hands!! When I brought this to their attention, they thought it was amusing. There is no mistaking their predatory intentions.

Advanta Business Visa Card is a pure predator play - bait and switch. I am sure the class action attorneys are going to have a field day with them.
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Re: Advanta Problems - Please Beware

Postby Polonius on Sun Dec 14, 2008 11:35 am

But Advanta DID send the opt out notice. The law doesn't say anything about the size of the type.

Yes, of course Advanta might have to prove it sent the letters if challenged in court. But how difficult would that be? Typically, it would only have to show postal receipts and have someone in its mailing department or in the mailing service it hired testify. The receipts show the quantity mailed and when.

Look, I'm not surprised that hundreds of people are miffed, have complained, and didn't read the fine print. The same statement holds true for many changes in terms from many banks. I doubt that Advanta didn't check what it was doing with its own attorneys and did the changes the way the attorneys suggested. Whether its attorneys were right or wrong is for the courts to determine.

And I'll repeat that the best way to opt out is to pay off the loan and not use the card again. Simple. If you can't, aren't you showing that Advanta was correct to think that you're not financially secure right now?
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Re: Advanta Problems - Please Beware

Postby footcare on Sun Dec 14, 2008 7:57 pm

But, Advanta likely DID NOT send out the opt out notices. The post office is probably highly reliable on the % of mail delivered category. When over 250 people have said they didn't get it, your statement doesn't hold any water. A large majority of people don't look at all the junk mail that they get, but there are those like myself, an attorney in NY, and other of these small business owners that meticiously go through all their mail. They did not receive the notice.

There are some regulations for type size in Regulation Z of the Federal Truth in Lending Act for certain areas of agreements:

Format. Generally, disclosures must be in writing and presented in a "clear and conspicuous" manner. For credit card application disclosures, the "clear and conspicuous" standard is interpreted to mean that application disclosures must be "readily noticeable." Disclosures that are printed in a twelve-point type size have a safe harbor in the regulation under this standard.

Disclosures for direct-mail credit card account applications have the most regimented format requirements. The disclosures must be presented in a table with headings substantially similar to those published in the Board's model forms. Regulation Z's sole type-size requirement also applies to direct-mail application disclosures; the annual percentage rate for purchases must be in at least eighteen-point type size.

I would doubt their postal receipts would be of much use in proving they sent the random Opt Out notices. Most businesses use a mail machine that runs their letters through their postal meter. The machine would record how many letters went through the machine and how much money they spent, but I doubt each one time a letter goes through their machine, it ascertain what the contents of the letter are.

Their President Mr. Altel, is an attorney and a financial expert. They already lost one class action lawsuit against them in the late 90s for millions for jacking interest rates under another credit card program. Interesting too that their stock did not hardly drop as a result of this lawsuit. Lately their stock is in the toilet, they have had to double their allowance for defaults by 14 billion I believe it was, and so on. That says a lot why they are jacking the interest rates on anyone carrying a balance to make up for these problems.

A lot of the small businesses used Advanta for expanding their businesses, starting their businesses, etc. Advanta was offering 0% for 15 months, and then 7.99% thereafter making it a good source of money on loan, even cheaper than a bank loan. Advanta advertises these rates to try and get the small businesses to get their credit card. A lot had their rate jacked within a few months of doing a transfer for no legitimate reason without any opt out notice, and without doing anything wrong with excellent credit records and FICO scores. Advanta is enticing businesses to borrow money with their so called low interest rates and terms, and then they jack the rates on anyone with a balance. There is nothing wrong with the fact the business wanted to expand for instance, so they borrowed the money lets say for 12 months and wanted to pay it over the time period especially at 0% interest. If they had the money, they wouldn't have needed Advanta and Advanta wouldn't exist because they wouldn't have anyone needing a credit card. A business expansion for instance is more of a long term investment. A 2 year payback is a good measure of whether a good investment. Advanta can't be making money when the interest rate is 0%, so they go and jack the rate after a few months to ludicrous 36% rates. That is ridiculous.

I love your assumption that no one (inferring like 100%) of people don't read the fine print. I would partially agree, but also disagree that quite a few do read the fine print, especially an attorney in NY. I'm sure there are enough who do read the fine print and check their mail, that all these claims are perfectly legitimate. For some I am sure Advanta has just cause to raise rates when they are not financially stable or truly are a more long term credit risk, but 37%? Why not charge 50%, 100%, 400%? Where do you draw the line?
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Re: Advanta Problems - Please Beware

Postby Gambler66 on Wed Dec 17, 2008 9:38 am

Where do i sign up for the lawsuit as I also have had issues never recieving the opt out and yes i go through everything myself . I called in oct after seeing the rate increase and they dropped it to 13.18 from 27 based upon one phone call. Then i recieved a letter saying my rate was going to be based upon libor plus 8.59 % I spent 2 hrs on the phone getting hung up on trying to find out what term libor they are using because i could be wrong but i cant find one at that percentage. Well the one said it was the 90 day rate then the other said that is WAS MY LIBOR based upon my credit bill payment card use and by the way payed them 1000-2000 per month and credit score is 750 never late I asked then based upon the letter sent to me then it is not factual and all he stated was he couldnt lower my rate. Sent a email trying to get a answer they state that the libo r rate has increased from 2.49 to 4.56 no idea where they are getting these numbers and they wont say how.
Any ideas
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Re: Advanta Problems - Please Beware

Postby Gambler66 on Fri Dec 19, 2008 8:29 am

Finally got a email that states that they use any posted libor rate in the wsj (the highest rate is the way i understand )it 3 months prior to the end of the billing cycle kinda strange
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Re: Advanta Problems - Please Beware

Postby Polonius on Thu Dec 25, 2008 9:35 pm

Read about the LIBOR rate here:

http://www.moneycafe.com/library/3monthlibor.htm

and look at this list of the WSJ 3-month Libor rates:

http://mortgage-x.com/general/indexes/w ... asp?y=2008

Note that on October 13, 2008 the WSJ 3-month LIBOR rate hit 4.81875%, even though it's now a third of that.
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Re: Advanta Problems - Please Beware

Postby dickinsonc on Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:59 pm

Ditto...SSDD.... Also rip'd off.
Good advice... pay off card & have nothing more to do with Advanta (and warn everyone you can about their predatory business practices) But...
Watch out. I paid off balance before due date, closed account. Got a statement for this month... said I owed $95 "cash advance". When I complained, I got a letter (today... the "bill" is due the 19th) saying that the $95 was interest for the month and even tho there was a zero balance, since the paid balance was from a "balance transfer" the fine-print on the statement (stating no interest if paid in full) was not valid. I paid, they still want more (sounds like extortion to me... I'd have been better off borrowing from the MAFIA, at least they had some honor
So..... LOL dealing with Advanta. I think the ONLY thing they are going to understand is a big lawsuit to slap them down again (& I pray if that happens in this economy, they won't be able to get up). So... even tho I'd like to just let it go... doesn't look like that is going to happen. Sign me up for ANY lawsuits against Advanta.
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Re: Advanta Problems - Please Beware

Postby Polonius on Sun Jan 18, 2009 11:54 am

dicksonc, you apparently do not understand that there is no grace period on a balance transfer--you are charged interest from the day the transfer is made. You pay interest for every day the balance is not paid in full, including all interest charges. Paying off what shows on the statement never includes the interest that accumulates between the statement closing date and the date your payment is received.

What you're describing is standard policy at every credit card issuer.
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Re: Advanta Problems - Please Beware

Postby coloradoskydiver on Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:10 pm

My Wife and I own a small buisness and have had an Advanta Card for over 5 years. We have never been late with a payment and never exceeded the limits. Then a few months ago they jacked the interest rate up to 17.8% which I thought was high. They also doubled the credit limit on the account. Then "Bang" they jacked the interest rate to 37.18%. That is higher that default interest rates anywhere much less what one would do to an on time good customer. So I called Customer Service. Thats a joke. After wadeing through the number selection I finally got some outsource individual who I believer was in India somewhere. Basically he said that I was out of luck and that was the best they could offer. I then proceeded to emai Advanta and got a reply form an account manager stating the same thing. She said it did not matter how your payment record was or that they had just increased you limit and even offerd a 6% rate on transferrs that they and decided that the account was at risk of default. Risk of Defaut?" Paid on time for over 5 years. Credit limit increased numerous times with the last one doubleing the credit limit to nearly $20.000. The balance being no where near that so the account was at risk of default justifying the increase jto 37.18%. After researching the different forums it apparent that Advanta is going after good customers to increase their income. On the other hand Capital One has lowered their Rate and is going to get all of our business in the very near future. "And we wonder why the Country is in the economic state it is in" Advanta's logic or lack there of and treatment of good customers in borderline criminal and if not should be. I hope more of their customers follow my lead and abandon them for better partnerships with reliable and honest companies. I can not believe that there are not any good, honest, and reliable banks out there. If they are all crooked and greedy we are truely in for some hard times.
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Re: Advanta Problems - Please Beware

Postby Alaskan Assassin on Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:09 pm

To me it looks like they don't want anyone to carry a balance.


To all of these people that are getting rate increases do you carry balances often? :?: Banks are all about profit the best choice is to never carry balances pay in full as much as possible remember banks are not our friends every bank rate jacks at some point its only a matter of time 8)
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!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ADVICE NEEDED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Postby ccvictim on Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:36 pm

what are consequences for not paying ADVANTA for small business credit card debt beside trashing credit ??? pls help anyone?
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Re: Advanta Problems - Please Beware

Postby NightStar on Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:12 am

Business debt is not covered by fair debt collection practices act. You are stuck, they can take what ever action they deem fit to collect from you. Best thing you can do is open up a new account and balance transfer it over to another card with a lower rate. Maybe check with your local bank if you can get an installment loan to pay it off.
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Re: Advanta Problems - Please Beware

Postby footcare on Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:14 pm

Alaskan Assassin wrote:To me it looks like they don't want anyone to carry a balance.


To all of these people that are getting rate increases do you carry balances often? :?: Banks are all about profit the best choice is to never carry balances pay in full as much as possible remember banks are not our friends every bank rate jacks at some point its only a matter of time 8)



I would agree with you on the fact that Advanta is jacking the rates of anyone of their business card holders who are carrying a balance regardless of their credit history. If you read the complaints of dozens and dozens of their small business card holders, this seems to be a common thread among others such as not getting an opt out notice.
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Re: Advanta Problems - Please Beware

Postby cowbulls on Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:06 pm

I own a small business. Advanta jumped my interest from an introductory rate of 4.99% to 30.74%. I'm prepared to file chapter 11 if necessary to get away from this debt. I presented this option to Advanta. They informed me that my business account was personally guaranteed. I KNOW I didn't sign a personal guarantee and told that to the Advanta rep.
The Advanta rep said that by signing the check that I was personally guarantying the account. Is that possible? Can they come after me personally?
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Re: Advanta Problems - Please Beware

Postby NightStar on Sun Mar 22, 2009 2:19 am

You could file personal bankruptcy if that is the way they are going to be about it, but I would speak to a lawyer first about it. But filing chapter 11 should work too. What state are you from? Try to find additional information for you.
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