Debit Card Comparison
Author: Ira
SENIOR MEMBER (Member for 2 yrs.+)
Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 644
Location: NJ
Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2003 8:45 pm
Eugene, we had a little discussion last week which I cannot locate on how debit cards are accepted. I did a little test with my Citibank debit MasterCard over the weekend. I made a purchase online and no pin was requested. However, every store I went into did request a pin and offered cash back. I returned something a tHome Depot and rather than credit the amount to the card they insisted on giving me a cash refund, saying this is the way they handled debit card refunds. Not sure what all this proves, but I did promise to report back.
Do not let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
Ira
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SENIOR MEMBER (Member for 2 yrs.+)
Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 644
Location: NJ
Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2003 8:45 pm
Eugene, we had a little discussion last week which I cannot locate on how debit cards are accepted. I did a little test with my Citibank debit MasterCard over the weekend. I made a purchase online and no pin was requested. However, every store I went into did request a pin and offered cash back. I returned something a tHome Depot and rather than credit the amount to the card they insisted on giving me a cash refund, saying this is the way they handled debit card refunds. Not sure what all this proves, but I did promise to report back.
Do not let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
Ira
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posted by CardRatings.com at 11:33 AM
24 Comments:
Author: NightStar
Forum Moderator
Joined: 07 Nov 2003
Posts: 1753
Location: Illinois
Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2003 8:50 pm
I always thought debt was the same as my atm card. Cause I can use it in an atm to get money, I can make purchases on it like a credit card or as a debt card.
That is interesting none the less to know - on getting cash back refunds.
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Author: Eugene
SENIOR MEMBER (Member for 2 yrs.+)
Joined: 14 May 2003
Posts: 259
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2003 8:51 pm
Quote:
However, every store I went into did request a pin and offered cash back.
Did they ask you if it was debit or credit card before they requested a PIN? My understanding is that they were supposed to, as there is no way for them to know which it is. Can you try just telling them (even if they don't ask) that it's a credit card before you swipe it? If they allow you to make the purchase based on your signature without PIN, then my point about debit cards being much worse than credit + ATM cards combination stands.
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Author: nativechild48
Credit Expert (100+ Posts)
Joined: 10 Nov 2003
Posts: 308
Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2003 9:24 pm
I always thought ATM and debit were the same; what I find confuses a lot of people is that ATM can be used to deduct money from checking and savings and debit can be used to deduct money from checking, pay bills from checking and make purchases from checking. Most credit unions will not allow debit purchases unless it is from checking. But they are the basically the same card with these exceptions.
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Author: Eugene
SENIOR MEMBER (Member for 2 yrs.+)
Joined: 14 May 2003
Posts: 259
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2003 9:37 pm
NightStar and Nativechild, see webgroups.biz/creditcardperks/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=270 for the beginning of this discussion.
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Author: Ira
SENIOR MEMBER (Member for 2 yrs.+)
Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 644
Location: NJ
Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2003 11:46 pm
Ah yes! That's what I didn't do. I'll try it in the next day or two.
Do not let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
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Author: Cathy
Joined: 12 May 2003
Posts: 55
Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2003 4:19 am
I work for a merchant. Whether a PIN is required depends on whether the transaction was processed by VISA /MC or by one of the PIN-based networks. Either way the money will still come out of your checking account. If you prefer signature -based transactions, and they are able to take mastercard and visa, ask them to process the card as a credit card even though it isn't one, and you will be asked to imput your signature. The reason a lot of merchants encourage PIN-based transactions whenever possible is that some merchants get a break on the merchant discount fees if the PIN is used. However, with one of my debit cards (I have more then one account) I have a reward program associated with it, but I only get the award points if the transaction is processed by mastercard. To my knowlege merchants aren't required to ask, though most will both as a curtesy and most merchant computer systems require you to pick, though lately (Ie at grocery stores) i've noticed that some machines will automatically ask the PIN so I hit cancel, and the machine offers me the choice of Credit or Debit (I choose credit mainly to earn my points and/or to avoid any debit fees certain merchants charge which they aren't supposed to be able to do if the transaction is processed via visa or mastercard). Hope this helps!
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Author: NightStar
Forum Moderator
Joined: 07 Nov 2003
Posts: 1753
Location: Illinois
Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2003 7:56 am
Quote:
debit fees certain merchants charge which they aren't supposed to be able to do if the transaction is processed via visa or mastercard). Hope this helps!
Mine is VISA - I always select debt and enter in my pin number - but to I always get charged $1.50 to $2.00 so I don't use it at all if I can help it.
So if I don't want the fee, I should just be charging it, right?
Strange way they work these things.
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Author: Verne
SENIOR MEMBER (Member for 2 yrs.+)
Joined: 14 May 2003
Posts: 480
Location: Midwest
Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2003 8:38 am
Debit cards scare me. The unauthorized use of my debit card could clean out my checking account - my money. The unauthorized use of my credit card might run up my credit card bill but in the end it's the bank's money - their money.
I like to gamble with house money - especially in this carnival shell game.
Verne
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Author: NightStar
Forum Moderator
Joined: 07 Nov 2003
Posts: 1753
Location: Illinois
Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2003 8:49 am
You make a very good point there, more allowed protection if something goes wrong with credit card transaction then there is as a debt transaction.
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Author: nativechild48
Credit Expert (100+ Posts)
Joined: 10 Nov 2003
Posts: 308
Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2003 8:50 am
They are money--- yours. Yes crdit cards do give protection but some people have to fight for it. I am very careful with my debit card, and because no one can get money without the pin number, does not stop them from buying gas and food. I take Amex for this and earn my points and carry my debit when I am going away in case----but it is very well secreted and once hid it from myself. I would never buy online with my debit card although the credit union now has a new protection, I am afraid to go there for this. I understand your feeling on this and know what you're saying.
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Author: Eugene
SENIOR MEMBER (Member for 2 yrs.+)
Joined: 14 May 2003
Posts: 259
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2003 10:52 am
Cathy and Verne, thank you! That's the exact point I can't stress enough - debit cards are much more risky to carry around, compared with ATM card (for cash) and credit card(s) for purchases.
See boardserver.superstats.com/read.html?collapse=0&uid=539413&u=Fairterms&id=11244&loc=0&thread=11244&f=1&u=Fairterms for more details.
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Author: Guest
Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2003 10:57 am
I agree with Verne.
I have both debit and ATM. Since I almost always charge, I leave the debit card at home and carry the ATM card, just to get cash in an emergency.
Once a year, I carry the debit card on vacation for small purchases, and I am VERY CAREFUL with it. When vacation is over, it goes back in the sock drawer and I put the ATM card back in my wallet.
Unless you write checks for purchases, rather than charge, there is really no good reason to take the risk of carrying a debit card, which is the same as carrying access to your checking account in your wallet. It may be more convenient than cash or checks, but it is far more risky. With cash, you only lose what is in your wallet. With checks, you will always be asked to show ID, which makes it almost impossible for a thief to use.
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Author: Ira
SENIOR MEMBER (Member for 2 yrs.+)
Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 644
Location: NJ
Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2003 7:28 pm
Hi Eugene,
Well I tried using my debit card in credit mode and wgile the machine at BJ's Wholesale Club did burp once, on the second pass it went through as a credit transaction. I went online to my checking account and it's listed as a "credit authorization."
Since this card is the only way for me to get cash our of my checking account and since I do travel locally quite a bit (I'll be in A/C all next week on business), I can't not carry the debit card. Anywhere I make a debit purchase I can get no charge cash - no ATM fee. All cards that I carry are very secure on my person so I'm not worried about them being stolen or lost.
I know that some will disagree with me, but that's the way I choose to run MY life.
_________________
Do not let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
Ira
Last edited by Ira on Sun Nov 16, 2003 8:24 am; edited 1 time in total
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Author: Eugene
SENIOR MEMBER (Member for 2 yrs.+)
Joined: 14 May 2003
Posts: 259
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2003 7:48 pm
Quote:
I know that some will disagree with me, but that's the way I choose to run MY life.
And that's OK, of course, as long as you are aware of advantages and disadvantages.
The way I do it is I only have an ATM card (no debit) from my checking bank. If I need cash, I use that. If I need to buy something, I use credit and pay off every month in full, getting rewards in the process.
I use one of those Internet banks that not only pays more than double the interest of an average interest checking account, it does that with no fees, no minimums (with direct deposit), AND it refunds me up to 5 times the buck-fifty other banks charge me for using their ATMs. This is why I don't mind the inability to get cash back that I would have had with a debit card.[/code]
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Author: NightStar
Forum Moderator
Joined: 07 Nov 2003
Posts: 1753
Location: Illinois
Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2003 11:46 pm
Quote:
Pros
* Obtaining a debit card is often easier than getting a credit card. If you qualify to open a bank account, you can usually get a debit card.
* Unlike when you write a check, using a debit card saves you from having to show identification or give out personal information at the time of the transaction.
* It frees you from carrying cash or a checkbook.
* It can save you from having to stock up on traveler's checks or cash when you travel.
* Debit cards may be more readily accepted than checks, especially in other states or countries.
* If you return merchandise or cancel services paid for with a debit card, the transaction will be treated as if it were made with cash or a check. Customers usually get cash back for on-line purchases; for off-line transactions, the amount is credited to your account.
* Most ATMs will allow you to get a cash advance against the line of credit on your credit card, using your credit card and a separate PIN. You do not necessarily have to have a bank account to do this.
Cons
* Unlike a credit card, debit card transactions give you no grace period. They are a quick, pay-now deal.
* They can make balancing your account tricky if you are not fastidious about keeping receipts and recording transactions in a timely fashion. It is easy to forget, for example, when you pay at the gas pump with a debit card and drive off without your receipt.
* Using a debit card may mean you have less protection than you would with a credit card for goods that are never delivered, are defective or were misrepresented. But, as with credit cards, you can dispute unauthorized charges or other mistakes within 60 days. Contact your bank if a problem with a merchant cannot be resolved.
* Fees -- The convenience can be costly, especially when using an ATM that is not affiliated with your bank.
I have run into different towns that would not accept my checks (they had a 30 minute drive radius for accepting checks)
I hate balancing check book for these transaction fees, never know from one place to the next who charged what. Especially if you use the debt a few times within a short period of time, then you get lost as to what went where.
I grugingly use the debt part of the card, rather use it for ATM even before using it as a credit card.
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Author: NightStar
Forum Moderator
Joined: 07 Nov 2003
Posts: 1753
Location: Illinois
Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2003 11:06 am
ATM Cards, Debit Cards and Electronic Fund Transfers
If your ATM card has been lost or stolen or otherwise compromised, cancel the card as soon as you can. Get a new card with a new PIN.
a. If you report your ATM card lost or stolen within two business days of discovering the loss or theft, your losses are limited to $50.
b. If you report your ATM card lost or stolen after the two business days, but within 60 days after a statement showing an unauthorized electronic fund transfer, you can be liable for up to $500 of what a thief withdrawals.
c. If you wait more then 60 days, you could lose all the money that was taken from your account from the end of the 60 days to the time you reported your card missing.
Note: After receiving notification about an error on your statement, the financial institution generally has 10 business days to investigate.
The institution must tell you the results of its investigation within three business days after completing it and must correct an error within one business day after determining that the error has occurred.
If the institution needs more time, it may take up to 45 days to complete the investigation - but only if the money in dispute is returned to your account and you are notified promptly of the credit.
At the end of the investigation, if no error has been found, the institution may take the money back if it sends you written explanation.
NOTE: VISA & MasterCard voluntarily have agreed to limit consumers' liability for unauthorized use of their debt cards in most instances to $50 per card, no matter how much time has elapsed since the discovery of the loss or theft of the card.
For more information, see Electronic Banking and Credit, ATM and Debit Cards: What to Do If They’re Lost or Stolen, two consumer publications from the FTC at: consumer.gov/idtheft
Ok - here is better link for Electronic Banking Info:
ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/credit/elbank.htm
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Author: frank
Guest
Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2003 11:40 am
All the more reason to stick with a basic ATM card. Less risk, less hassle, less mess.
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Author: Cathy
Joined: 12 May 2003
Posts: 55
Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2003 2:33 am
Just a few more things to add:
NightStar: Yes, when offered the choice select credit and process your card through Visa and they are not SUPPOSED to charge the fee according to Visa regs. Either way, it comes out of your checking account, though it may take an extra couple of days to show up in your account. On the flip side, if the card is used through Visa, you will not be able to get cashback from the merchant if that merchant offers this feature. In addition both Visa and Mastercard has 0% liability policies which also apply to check cards.
Yes there are pluses and minuses to both types of cards, each consumer should pick the card that best suites their needs. That said, if a standard atm/debit card will not swipe or if the PIN processing network is down (ie when a satalite is down) it can not be processed, whereas if it is a check card visa and mc regs allow me to imprint the card (and it still comes out of the checking account). For me, the check card works for smaller purchases like gas and groceries, but I tend to use a credit card for the bigger stuff I might end up disputing later (such as mail order and/or auto repairs) but I can understand why some may be wary of a check card even though for me personally it's the better choice. Each card has it's own advantages and disadvantages, so each consumer should pick the one that suites theirown financial needs. Sorry this is so long, but hope it helps!
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Author: NightStar
Forum Moderator
Joined: 07 Nov 2003
Posts: 1753
Location: Illinois
Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2003 3:24 am
Thanks, I know I will now avoid using the pin # for debt, as I don't want additional fees, I like the check card for the purpose of needing an alternate means especially if I run out of checks.
I just don't like using my actual credit cards unnessasarily, since I carry balances from month to month as it is.
Rather say in the practice of real time using what I do have, not future credit.
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Author: Ira
SENIOR MEMBER (Member for 2 yrs.+)
Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 644
Location: NJ
Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2003 8:44 am
I have been using Quicken + online banking for many years. I get receipts for EVERY register transaction. At the end of the day it's very easy to simply enter every transaction into Quicken and keep my account in balance.
What does drive me up a tree is that every so often a debit transaction falls off the system and never appears on my bank statement. Yes it means that I won the lottery and got whatever it was that I "bought" for free, but it takes considerable time to locate the glitch. Oh well, if I'm getting something for nothing, what am I b***hing about?
I guess different banks have different rules. With CitiBank there is never a charge for making a debit card purchase and getting cash back at the same time. The only time there's a charge is if I go to a non-CitiBank cash machine, in which case there is a charge, not from my bank, but from the bank that owns the machine. If that's what you're talking about I agree, I avoid those like the plague. No reason to make the banks richer than they are.
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Do not let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
Ira
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Author: NightStar
Forum Moderator
Joined: 07 Nov 2003
Posts: 1753
Location: Illinois
Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2003 11:56 am
I am an hours drive from my bank, and the ones around here are going to charge me every time I use an ATM here, so I learned my lesson since bank was getting me for $2 fee each transaction & up to additional fee from my bank. I already have a standerd $6 + $6 fee for checking & online access. So that starts to add up all the little stuff. We have started carrying a higher balance on a regular basis in our checking account so one of the $6 fees have been waived quite often (least I think that is what is making the difference). I never quite got checking accounts 101 down right, lol
I have never gotten that lucky with them messing up on a transaction. But once with a credit card - Buest Buy flipped the numbers in my favor - I did call to alert them to the mistake. The rep said they where right it was not the other way around. I watch and they never fixed it. Was not a major purchase but think at the time the difference was $35 on the receipt. Had a credit card with them for quite a while - and they just never fixed it - finally used up the 6 months no interest and got rid of the card. Too high APR for me, 18% plus. And don't need an electronics store card around tempting husband (especially in my name).
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Author: Ira
SENIOR MEMBER (Member for 2 yrs.+)
Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 644
Location: NJ
Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2003 5:28 pm
Ok, if we're telling credit card mistakes in our favor stories I'll mention the best ever. About 15 years ago I "bought" a real high end VCR from a catalog. The price was about $1,500.00 They had a 30 day, no questions asked, return policy and I just couldn't resist playing with something that innovative for a while. They also had a pay in 12 installments at no interest charge offer. They would charge 1/12th of the amount to my credit card every month. That's what I signed up for, fully expecting to reluctantly send it back at the end of the trial.
The company messed up and charged me the full amount up front. Since I got the bill within 2 weeks I called and they said no problem, they would fix it, and don't worry about the trial. Since it was their mistake, take another 30 days. Excellent!
I got my next statement and they had credited the entire amount. But rinstead of t billing me the monthly amount, for some strange reason they issued another credit for $999.99. Thus not only did I get a free VDR, but they gave me a thousand dollars. That VCR is still my pride & joy. It's 15 years old and still better than anything on today's market.
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Do not let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
Ira
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Author: Verne
SENIOR MEMBER (Member for 2 yrs.+)
Joined: 14 May 2003
Posts: 480
Location: Midwest
Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2003 5:43 pm
Hey Ira,
I think I bought that same VCR in 1989! State of the art, Mitsubishi or something. Had Super-VHS and all kinds of stuff. A big honker, I always thought it got a bit warm. Could double as a tea warmer. Anyway I gave it to my sister who still uses it to this day.
Verne
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Author: NightStar
Forum Moderator
Joined: 07 Nov 2003
Posts: 1753
Location: Illinois
Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2003 6:05 pm
I wish I could be that lucky Ira - that sure beats mine. LOL
I know in other areas we have been fortunate with DH being a auto technician - he has really lucked into some deals on cars over the years, even get our share of free stuff from time to time since he has 2nd job there fixing computers. So free computer goodies from time to time also.
I know if you shop for electronics on a regular basis as husband does, you really have to keep up with their rebate policies and shop for the best prices these days.
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